#20: Breaking Free | How Psychedelic Therapy Helped Jamie Heal from Childhood Trauma
JANUARY 23, 2025
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In this episode of Courage to Heal, we hear a profound interview with Jamie Fleming, a survivor of childhood sexual abuse who found remarkable healing through psychedelic assisted therapy. Jamie recounts her traumatic experiences from a young age, the long-term effects of this trauma, and her journey through various therapeutic modalities. She eventually found significant healing via Ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT treatments, which helped her overcome her trauma and live a life free of fear and pain. Jamie's story offers hope and guidance for other trauma survivors, including practical steps towards healing and the transformative power of psychedelic therapy.
00:55 Jamie's Early Childhood and Abuse
06:08 Long-Term Effects of Trauma
10:53 Struggles with Therapy and Healing
16:10 Discovering Psychedelic Assisted Therapy
19:35 The Healing Journey with Psychedelics
29:05 A Journey of Self-Love
32:41 Life After Healing
40:57 The Power of Psychedelics
46:28 Continuing the Healing Journey
Jamie’s Website and Socials:
Transcript
Anna: Hello, dear friends and welcome to Courage to Heal.
Today, you will hear a very special interview with Jamie Fleming. Jamie is a survivor of sexual abuse who was remarkably healed from 35 years of childhood sexual trauma in just eight hours using psychedelic assisted therapy. Now, she shares her incredible true life healing story and helps others find healing in their own lives.
Jamie, welcome to Courage to Heal. It's wonderful to have you here.
Jamie: Thanks for having me.
Anna: And before we get started, I want to give a quick trigger warning since we will be covering the sensitive topic of childhood sexual abuse. So if this topic is upsetting to those of you who are listening in, you might want to find an appropriate time to listen and to engage in some self-care afterwards.
All right, let's begin. So, Jamie, can you just briefly explain the abuse that you suffered as a child and the long-term effects that it had on you?
Jamie: Yeah, so so really everything started when my mom and dad got divorced when I was three. And so when that happened I was going to see my dad, like, every other weekend, I think, once he, like, when he lived close enough to me, and then as, as the years went on, it was like, hey, every summer, it's been two weeks, because he lived a little bit further away, and, like, on holidays, we'd kind of take turns with that, but when I was really young that's when the abuse kind of started, when I would go see my dad my uncle he raped me and I think I was around three and then I remember, like, crying and being really, like, it really upset me because it hurt, and again, I was like three and so I don't think he really, like, liked that it, that I was crying, and so he didn't rape me anymore, but he did for, for, The next probably four or five years he would molest me.
And so every time I go see my dad, it was like, I want to see my dad, but I know that I'm going to see this uncle and he's going to hurt me again. So it was a very like, I want to see my dad, but I know I'm going to pay for it. Even as a young age, I knew that like, oh, I want to see my dad, but I just knew like, okay, well, I go see my dad or do I, you know, do I not try to come up with an excuse?
But I didn't tell my parents for a few years when the abuse was happening because he would always tell me like, well, don't say anything. You're going to be in trouble. And what little kid wants to be in trouble. So I just remember I didn't tell him and I just and then I got to a point I just got tired of it happening.
And so, like, I did finally tell in front of my dad, my uncle, I think my stepmom was there, my grandma, I don't remember who else, but it was just kind of, I just kind of blurted that out, like, Uncle Ricky, Uncle Rick touched my fronty. Cause I didn't really know how else to say, like, at that age, you know.
Five or, you know, six, seven, eight years old, like, I don't know how to really say that, so I just, he touched my fronty, and so the abuse stopped with that uncle, but I think I was around, I don't really know exactly what age, but maybe between eight and ten, and my other uncle made me swallow and so, And then I remember after I told my dad about the first uncle that raped me and molested me for years they just kind of said, okay, don't leave Jamie alone.
Like, so my, my parents, my mom would tell my two older brothers, don't leave Jamie alone with uncle Rick. So, and they were kids themselves, you know, like my oldest brother, I think seven years older than me and the other ones like. Four years older so like they're still kids like but and so I kind of Frustrates me that my parents especially my mom like put that on my brothers to like, hey, don't leave You know make sure when you go see your dad like don't leave Jamie alone with that uncle And I just I don't understand that at all because they were kids, too And I remember like one time after I had told one of my brothers the one that's closer in age to me he, my uncle had tried to get me alone again and we're walking down this dirt road.
Hey, let's go to the candy store. I was like, okay, and he got me alone and my, I remember like my brother's running down the dirt road to like, try to catch up with us. And and I remember thinking, why is he so mad at me? Like I didn't do anything. I'm just walking down the road, you know? But it was because he was in, he remembers that he remembers that too.
We've talked about it like, you know, a few years ago. He remembers that, but like he was so mad, but it was because he was doing, he was doing what mom had told him to do. And, you know, I was getting away with, so I don't think they really knew exactly what had happened, but like he was upset that he, you know, I got away with Uncle Rick by myself and he probably didn't want to get in trouble himself.
But, after, like, I told and, like, it never happened again, thankfully, with that uncle, and then the whole abuse that one time with the one thankfully it didn't happen continually, it was just the one-time thing. Like I said, I think I was around like somewhere between eight and ten. I don't really know exactly how old I was still young enough to like, and I think because I had already been through the trauma with the one uncle, I was kind of like, well, I don't want to get in trouble and I don't want to like, I don't know.
I felt like it was already like really damaged at that point. And so I think that's because I think about it now. I'm like, man, if I was already abused from the one uncle, you'd think I would like say no or I don't know. Like. But I think because I just was harmed and abused and hurt so badly for years from the one that maybe I just I didn't I don't know, I really can't figure that part out.
But I don't know. But I was so young that my brain wasn't fully developed either. And I know that. So but all of the I mean, Growing up and living with that trauma. I had headaches every day. Even as a kid, I had headaches all the time. And like one of the nurses, she was kind of mean. And I was like, no, I really have a really bad headache.
And of course, she didn't know like the abuse I had went through or was going through. And it was really struggled all through school. But like, I don't know, like, I don't, she didn't believe me for a while until finally, like, I kept on getting, I got, I got a lot of sinus infections too, but also just, I mean, every day almost, I had a headache though, just because of all the stress and anxiety of, Growing up basically my whole life until 37, you know, until I got healing like every day almost I had a headache really bad migraine headaches and none of the medicine worked, sauna surgeries didn't help I was really scared to even like, even during the daytime, like go by myself somewhere, like I was scared because I was afraid as an adult I was going to get raped again.
And so, like, I lived in that, I like to call it the trauma filter because I saw everything through that filter, and so I lived my life, like, through that filter, so, like, I wouldn't go out, definitely not in the dark by myself, and if I had to, I was in just, on just, On edge, I was real just, I don't know, like, even, even when I had, I had my kids just kind of bitchy with them just because I was just the anxiety of, oh, my God, I have to go out in the dark.
And my husband traveled, you know, travels a lot for speaking. And so when the kids were really young, I was like, you know, my husband's out of town. I'm here by myself, but I want to be able to do stuff with the kids, and so I would do it anyway, but the whole time I'm super stressed, headache, naps every day, basically.
I pretty much napped every day, probably anywhere from an hour to two hours a day. It was kind of like my escape, really. Like, I do remember in high school I did cut my wrists. I was pretty suicidal in high school. Just, I had a boyfriend that slammed against the lockers because I gave a good guy friend from church a hug and he didn't like that and it just triggered everything.
It brought it all up, even though it wasn't like, you know, my abuse wasn't like, I wouldn't say it was like, violent but it just, for whatever reason, it triggered everything and just brought it all up and not that I wasn't already dealing with enough shit. I had flashbacks all the time and just, just living in the anxiety world of that trauma filter.
But when that happened, it just, it made it all worse, way worse. And so I was like, I can't, I didn't want to live. It was just too hard. So I was cutting my wrist in high school. I think I was a freshman in high school and I started doing that and lasted for several months and then CPS got involved because somebody, I think, I'm, I think I'm so thankful that they did, but they saw, you know, I must've, I wore long sleeves and bandages.
And so like somebody must've saw that I did. So the counselor at school got involved and CPS got involved. And then, you know, they went to Oklahoma where they live, my uncles, and like, did like a restraining order and all that, and even though it had been years, but like, they did that, and but again, nothing really ever happened, they never got arrested, never, like, neither one of them, like, nothing ever happened, it just kind of got like swept under the rug like it was, like it just, nothing ever happened.
I felt kind of like they didn't really believe me because if they believe me, then why, why didn't they do anything about it? You know? So, yeah, just a lot of anxiety and just fearful all the time. Headaches every day. Sleep napping every day. just I don't know, just in that trauma filter is, is kind of what I, what I dealt with until I got healing.
Anna: Got it. Yeah, Jamie, what a tragic story, how, you know, from such a young age until, like you said, the age of 37. I think those are such powerful words, living through a trauma filter. And I think most survivors can recognize that, that everything you do every day is somehow tainted by the abuse you suffered.
Whether it's, like in your case, headaches and body aches and feeling exhausted, being afraid all the time. Yeah, a lot of survivors will recognize those symptoms for sure.
Jamie: I felt dirty a lot, too. You know, I like, oh, I try to shower enough and it just you can't like get the uck off, you know, it just doesn't come off.
So I had that for a long time, too, for sure. Counseling helped, you know, to an extent when I finally found a good one because I had to go through a few to find the right one for me. When I found the right one for me, I did. I did feel like I got a little bit of healing because it was like, Oh, every day, every week, you're gonna come back and you're gonna have to come up with five more things you like about yourself.
And I remember thinking, because she's like, eventually, you're gonna have 100. And I'm like, What? Are you kidding me? I can't think of and I couldn't even think of five. I'm like, I can maybe think of one or two, like, I like my eyes I like that I put blue in my hair, like, other than that, like, it was like, I don't know, like, it was, it was that hard to just come up with five things.
And so eventually I got there, but it was hard work. Like, oh, my gosh, like, how do I think of all these things? But that one counselor though, I mean, she did help me quite a bit. But I tried all the stuff the church told me to do, you know, all those things and none of it worked. None of it worked. So
Anna: Yeah. Yeah. So, so you had this one counselor who was helpful. What else have you tried? What kind of modalities or, you know, what have you tried that didn't really work for you before the psychedelic-assisted therapy?
Jamie: I mean, really, I, I tried, like, because I remember, I think I was, like, maybe 12 years old, and my mom had me see, like, a counselor, but she was, like, a Christian counselor, and it was just kind of, like, if she didn't have the answer, she would, like, resort to the Bible, and I'm, like, That's not helping me.
Like, you don't know the answer, so you're just throwing a scripture at me. Like, it's not helpful. There was a program through the church, I can't remember what it's called. I did that one probably seven, eight years ago and it was through the church and I, but I don't remember what it was called.
And so we'd meet like, I think it was once a week for I think six or 12 weeks, something like that. I tried that. And then I also tried an outpatient therapy group, like group therapy. And then I got there and I was like, I mean, not to, I don't want this to come off wrong, but like, I realized I'm not, I'm not as bad as some of the people in there are, like, I was kind of grateful that I'm really happy that I'm not seeing things that aren't really there and, and things, so like, I was really, I actually got there and I was pretty grateful that, like, I was not as bad as off as a lot of the other people that were there that were so that was that made me feel kind of grateful because I never dealt with drugs.
I never dealt with like alcohol or anything like that through all that. Surprisingly I just never did because I was like, I already have enough shit right now. I want to add to that, make it worse. So, I just never really, I don't, and, and I grew up super, super, super religious, and so I still believe in God now, but I don't go to church anymore but I grew up super, I mean, and all of my family is still all in that religious box so I, I can't really even talk to them about some things sometimes because they'll just throw a scripture at me again, you know, that's not but I tried that, I tried that group therapy.
And that was, it was okay. I mean, I guess, I guess I kind of saw like a lot of the things I would try, like maybe they would help a little bit, like maybe one more. Notch in the not, you know, like maybe one more layer of the onion got peeled back, but, but not enough to really do a lot, if that makes sense.
Like maybe it helped, maybe everything helped a little, but nothing like psychedelics did like nothing compares to what that did for me. Like within eight hours. So that, so like all the things I would say, maybe they helped to an extent, like maybe just a little bit, but not enough for me to tell that it was, if it was.
I'm trying to think what else I tried. Going to healing services and getting prayed for and then them calling you your demon possessed or that there's something wrong in you that that's why you're not healed, Jamie your demon possessed, or there's something wrong in you that's what's causing that you not to be healed.
So I got a lot of that too growing up. So. I had all that on top of the drama. I was like, Oh, my God, really? So, yeah, I think that's really all I just tried, you know, counseling different like three or four different counselors. And the program through the church I went through that didn't really, I didn't feel like it really did a lot.
And then the group therapy, I tried maybe a little bit, but when I found that one counselor, I think like she's the only one that I felt I can really, I could tell that helped me at least like enough to notice a little bit because it helped me into intimately more with my husband and so that that to me was like, okay.
That's something I can actually see and notice that that's helping me, if that makes sense. So, that was kind of like, oh, I can tell, because I'm, that's getting better. So.
Anna: Right, right. So, so all of these things you tried, like you said, they, they helped a little bit, maybe they didn't help any, depending on what it was.
And then when it comes to psychedelic assisted therapy, you say that it healed you. What do you mean by that?
Jamie: I, I did a program that is not in the U. S. And it's psychedelic assisted therapy. And they, so really, It's kind of like I have to back up a little bit only because I don't think I would have been open to the psychedelics.
If I hadn't went through the car accident that I went through in 2020 right when covid happened. And so when that car accident happened, you know, herniated disc in my back in my neck. Still kind of having a few issues with my neck right now, actually, but it's like when that happened and my daughter's in the car, she broke her arm, got a concussion.
I broke, you know, didn't break anything, but had those two herniated disc concussion as well. That was rough year, not because of COVID, but just because of recovery and surgeries and neck fusion and two stimulators in my back and still kind of dealing with stuff. But I feel like because I was so in so much pain.
I was kind of more open to like, okay, and so I tried like a psychedelic mushroom first and my husband had tried it. And so he was like, you know, I really think it might help you. And I was kind of like, screw it. At this point, I'll try anything. I'm so in so much pain. And so I got a little bit of healing from the mushrooms.
And so and I was like, okay, and so that's kind of what made me more open to the idea of trying, like, the Ibogaine and the DMT that I tried and, you know, over, you know, out of, out of the U. S. But when I tried that, it was Ibogaine, and it was the 5-MeO-DMT is what, and it was like you smoke it. And and I went now, when I went through it, because so my, again, my husband went through that program before I did.
And so when he came back, because he's a veteran from the war in Afghanistan, and when he got back, completely healed from his PTSD, and he was just better. I was like, well, I have PTSD too, like from all this shit I've been through as a kid. Maybe it might help me. So I, and then his mom went through it and she got healed and had been through a lot of trauma in her life as well.
And so I was like, okay, I've got to, but I was on hydrocodone for two and a half years. And so the program was like, okay, Jamie, we, we will take you, but you have to get to every 12 hours on the hydrocodone before we can let you come. And I was like, Oh my God. Okay. So, but I was really grateful. I had a really good pain doctor who is like, I want to miss you.
And so he helped me get there. And of course, I got to 12 every 12 hours and I'm like rubbing my arms a lot and just like really withdrawing from the hydrocodone. It was awful. Oh, it just like almost felt like I had the flu. It was in just chills and you're just you're just uncomfortable in your own skin.
And I remember telling my husband, like, I feel like I'm a drug addict or something like this is awful. And yeah. So I finally got to the 10 hour, you know, the every 12 hours and so I brought them pills, you know, they have you do the EKG before you even get there, lab work before you get there, and then when you get there, they do it again, just to confirm.
So, because Ibogaine can lower your heart rate sometimes. And so they just want to make sure you're really okay before they do that. And so so, how the psychedelics helped me, I would say is because, I would say the most thing that helped me the most would be Ibogaine. And it's because you see, the whole time you're seeing like visions.
And, So they're like, we're going to give you a pill every hour. And then I think the max is like five pills. And so Ibogaine is from Iboga tree in Africa. So it's the bark from that tree. And so they make it into a pill form. And so I just took a pill every hour and I think I only got to four. And the fourth pill.
All of a sudden, like, my hearing got crystal clear, and I could hear, because they have you hooked up to a heart monitor, I could hear, because it was an old, like, kind of old timey one, you could hear it, like, drawing, like, Oh, wow. Like, drawing my heart rate on the monitor. I was like, I could hear it. I was like, that's okay.
And then the nurse, because the whole time there's a nurse in there with you, so sometimes it was a woman nurse, and sometimes it was the guy nurse. And I was like you have paint on your face. I remember telling the guy nurse that I was like, you have paint like all over your face. Kind of like, or do you not know that you have paint on your face?
Like, it's really funny. And he got closer and closer. And then he got right, right near my face. And I was like, oh my gosh, it's gone. But I swear you had paint on your face. And I was kind of like, okay, now I know it's like kicking in because I'm seeing stuff that isn't obviously there. And I saw a lot of random, like, so the whole time you're just, it's about a 12 hour to 15 hour like thing.
And it's amazing, like. Because it's so visual, all visuals and I saw random stuff like people like walking in slow motion, and then all of a sudden they start sprinting, like I saw hydroglyphics, I saw every language, like every language, like a placemat that you get at school. And it was, and it just kind of like a flashcard, just really fast, just every language.
And I was like, okay, so just a lot of random stuff. And then I saw like a lot of random little girls running through forests and valleys and fields. And I saw my dog who died when I was a kid. I was like, Oh my gosh, riches. I called him britches. Cause he looked like he had pants on and I'm from Texas.
So you can probably tell I have an accent. But. Yeah, back in Texas, we call them britches, not pants. So I was like, Oh, my gosh, britches. I saw him and I saw my grandpa who died and that had been really hard. He was more like my dad, really, he was my mom's dad. And so I saw him and he's waving at me and he showed up in a frame.
It was kind of cool. Like anybody I saw came in like a frame like people. And I saw like. Like a life size pill bottle that just poured out. And I was like, and I knew I was like, okay, that's the hydrocodone. Like, that's probably what that represented. And and when, when I saw that it went to like a really, really white, like the start of white here.
So I don't, you know, where I went, who knows, but like. I think probably heaven or something. There's some kind of heaven, something like that because it's not a white here. It was so white that I was like, I know I would have probably been blinded really if I was really like looking at it. And I, I heard like Okay, we'll have to back up a little bit only because it tried to show me the rate before so I was like running through it was like showing me like as a little girl running through this forest and then I get grabbed and then I look and it's you can see it's my uncle's face.
That's not the way it happened, but I was like, and I remember them telling me if you see something you're uncomfortable, you just have to open your eyes and then it just. Goes away and I was like, okay, and so I wasn't ready at that point to see it and so fast forward So I saw the pure white like the pill bottle and then it went to that pure white and then I heard this voice like audibly Because most of the time it was very telepathic I would just think something and but but with this it was like I heard it audibly and it was like Are you ready?
And it was like the most loving, like dad, like, I don't know, like a really lovingly dad voice, you know, like, are you ready? And it just kind of a few seconds later, are you ready? And I kind of did it like a few times. And I finally was like, okay, just get it over with. And so this time, it went like, like, I was 37 when I went so it showed me 37, a picture of me, and then 36, and then 13, and it got all the way down to when I was 3, and when I got to 3, it showed me a picture of me at 3, and then it showed the rape, but it was almost like it was in third person, okay, so like, there was, I was worried like before getting there.
I'm like, Oh my God, I already know I'm going to see this shit. And I went there like believing like I with no doubt I'm coming back change. And I remember leaving and like really getting emotional telling my kids by and my husband by because I knew I was going to be different and healed. You know, I knew that.
And so but I sorry, I just lost my train of thought for a second. So it every it got me back to at three years old. Yeah. And and how it, how it actually happened, the rape actually happened was my uncle, we're walking, I remember it was fall time because there's leaves all over the ground and where we walked was like this down this trail that had vines that went up both sides of it.
I remember the vines were on both sides, so it was some kind of walkway that had that. And leased all over the ground. So I knew it was fall time. Remember he had a red shirt on. So it's weird that like little things like that that you remember. But and then I just remember like he pulled my pants down and, you know, he raped me from the ass, the butt.
And I, and when that part of the rape happened, when it's, when the rape started, that's when, if you've ever seen The Matrix, that's the best way to describe it, is like, it starts out where it's just a few pictures of it, and then like thousands of them are in your vision, like that's what it was like, like it, my whole vision was like, the rape.
Like thousands of them so and I remember after that happened or I saw that part I like I purged I guess is what they call it So I I started throwing up and it wasn't even a ton, but it literally tasted like pure Poison that I was throwing up. It was like just it was it. I remember just like it tasted awful Like it was awful awful and, and then I saw, like, my grandpa on my dad's side, like, and I don't know if this actually happened, okay, but I know it was already in the bloodline, and that uncle had, like, molested every girl in the family.
I was the only lucky one that got raped, too, but, like, but, like, I already knew that it was in the bloodline, and a few months before I went to do the treatment, I had, my stepmom had passed away from COVID, and I met a cousin from that, my dad's side of the family, and she had said that her dad, which was my grandpa's brother, had raped her, so I already knew it was already in the line, but in my vision, I saw my grandpa was raping a boy, and he was raping, and it just kind of went like a spiral of like, and they were raping them, and they were raping them, and it was a whole like, And it was kind of like telling me like, This curse is like this, this family curse is stopping with you.
Like it's it's I'm cutting that off. I'm cutting the head off of that. And so it's kind of how I kind of how I feel about that is like that that was kind of showing me like it's in the bloodline, but you're you're cutting that off.
Anna: Wow.
Jamie: Yeah. So that to me was the most healing thing because I remember like waking up like And it put me to sleep.
It was crazy. Like I was kind of disappointed. I woke up all I disappointed like I wanted to see more stuff, you know, but it like put me to sleep. And I think it was like, you've been through enough and now it's time to just rest, you know, you've done a lot of good work tonight, just rest. And so it like put me to sleep.
So like, I don't remember like how long my journey was honestly, but it was enough that yeah. It was healing for me, like whatever, you know but and then a few days later, because I said, like I said, my husband and I went through the same treatment, but mine was a little bit more like a week and a half long because I was getting off of hydrocodone.
Not, and he wasn't having to get off any medicine, so his was only like three or four days long, mine was like a week and a half.
Anna: Okay.
Jamie: And so, so I had a few days extra of like more fluid, IV fluids and stuff like that and like they put stuff in it that almost kind of like looked like Gatorade. So a lot of fluids for a few days after I did Ibogaine and then I did the DMT.
And that was like where I found love for my first, my, for the first time, like love for myself for the first time ever in my life. And I'm crying and I have that on video. So sometimes I still watch it and I can just see myself hugging myself and I'm crying and I'm saying like, you've been through so much.
You know, I love you and I'm telling myself I love myself because I've never done that before. So yeah, it was just super healing. I mean, in that eight hours, like. I woke up at like the next morning, like just fine, like I had a little bit of withdrawal and so they gave me one, they called it a booster pill, so I just gave me one Ibogaine pill the next day and I saw more visions and I saw like this hot pink hibiscus flower, which is why I have a hot pink hibiscus flower tattoo on my arm, kind of in remembrance of that because, and it says you are healed because telepathically it was like, you are healed in every way, Jamie, is what it told me.
And then it just kind of floated away. It was really beautiful. And so. Yeah, I mean literally like eight hours later, even if, I don't even know if it was that long, but like, yeah, like I started that night, and then the next morning, you know, really early, I woke up just, just good, just better, with just, all of it just off of me.
It was like a big, huge weight was just gone.
Anna: I can't, I can't even imagine. I mean, that's such an intense journey where you, You know, you kind of went through this age regression from 37 all the way to three, and then you witnessed your own trauma, and then you also cleared the whole ancestral intergenerational trauma too, and then you had a chance to experience true self love, true self compassion, see that you're worthy, and feel that you're healed.
That's incredible.
Jamie: Yeah, I was super nervous about that five of me o. And you know what? Still, I am because it blinded me like it was not like Ibogaine where you see tons of visions and I know a lot of people, you know, a lot of other people do see visions on DMT, but for or 5-MeO-DMT , I did not.
It blinded me. And I guess it's what I needed. I don't know. Like it. I did. I saw patterns within the watt. But it blinded me that I, it, I felt so alone and it was really hard to let go at first. It was really hard because I'm like, what the fuck did I just do? What did I just take? It really, oh man, it was hard.
It was, it was scary for a few minutes. And I just kept self talk like, you're okay. You're okay. Your husband and your mother in law has done this. Like, you'll be okay. You're okay. You're okay. And then when I finally just let go, it was kind of like I exploded into the diamond and then that's when just pure love for myself just overwhelmed me, like literally just overwhelmed me.
But crazy. Yeah, like I want to go through it again, but I, I'm, I don't know about 5meo though, cause I was so really It was, it was great once I got to the other side and, and overcame my, of letting go because that was the hardest part was letting go of control because that was, I mean, and that's always how I lived my life.
I didn't want to do anything that I was out of control. So I never liked roller coasters. I told my husband actually a few recently that, Hey, you know, I think I want to try roller coasters again because I haven't since yeah. Since psychedelics because I've been too scared to try because my whole life.
I've never liked anything. I'm not in control of
Anna: So, yeah Wow Okay, so so you come out of this journey you hear this message that you are healed What did you actually see in your life? What kind of changes were the headaches gone? What happened for you?
Jamie: All of them are gone. Like, literally, just, and you know, it's crazy.
This is the crazy part. Okay. I'm not even kidding you. I just realized that like a year ago, like I went through this three years ago. I just realized a year ago that my headaches have been gone. I'm like, I'm still realizing things like, oh, that's just not there anymore. But right away I came home. I remember like, Like I said, I never went anywhere in the dark.
My kids wanted pizza. I have two kids. I have two teenagers who pray for me. I have a boy and a girl. But like I remember they wanted pizza. So I was like, okay, well, I'll just go get it because it was in the same subdivision, but I didn't even want to go. Like, that's how bad it was. I didn't even want to go in the dark just in the same subdivision.
And it was right down there. Like, literally I could walk there. Like, that's how close the place was, that Domino's was. But like, I, I didn't want to do that. I was scared. So scared. That trauma filter. And so, I remember, like, one night, I got home, I went and got the pizza. And I was like, oh, the tire's, the tire's low and I'm kind of getting low on gas.
So, I was like, oh, I'll just go do that. So, I like, went to the gas station by myself, in the dark, filled up the tire. And got gas and then I came home, it's hilarious, I came home and I started crying. And my husband's like, are you okay? And I was like, I just went and got the pizza, and I went and got gas, and I got the tire, more tire in the tire, and like air in the tire, and I wasn't scared.
Like, I was like, what? Like, I just, I started crying because I did all of that, and I didn't even realize I did it until after the fact. And then I was like, oh my gosh, I just did all that. Like, and it just was no big deal. So, like, I have no fear anymore. Like, yes, I'm still, I would say I think I'm gonna probably always be, like, very alert around my surroundings, like, very aware, but I'm not fearful anymore.
Like, I'm not scared some person's gonna hurt me or rape me or molest me or anything. Like, I'm not, I'm not scared anymore. Like, I don't live my life scared. And I don't take naps anymore. If I take a nap right now, it's just because, oh, I didn't sleep good or my neck or my back's bothering me. So I need to lay down on my heating pad for a little bit or I didn't sleep good the night before.
It's not because I'm trying to escape my life because the only escape of being in that pain is, is because it's napping, you know, so it's not like that. It's like, oh, if I nap, it's because I'm tired. Where I'm hurting, so it's not like, because I need to escape my life.
Anna: Right. Right. I, I mean, I can only imagine that after 37 years of living with this trauma filter, you probably thought it would never, like, any kind of healing would never come for you.
Jamie: Yeah, I really didn't. I really, like, kind of just, like, figured, like, This is just my life, like, this is just the way it is, and I don't, I mean, I always hope that it would get better, but like, this is just my life, and like, I'm just gonna, I guess I'm just gonna have to deal with it forever. Yeah. And, and even like, even before psychedelics, I remember, I was like, I think I was early, like, early 30s, or mid, maybe mid 30s.
And I, I got a message from another uncle on that same, my dad's side, different one, not a bad one, but he messaged me on Facebook, and I hadn't heard from him in, I don't know, 10, 15 years, okay? And his daughter had been molested by that uncle, and, but they didn't do anything, and that cousin still has a lot of hurt because of that, you know?
Rightfully so. You know, I did too. I don't anymore. I, I've had to let that go. I don't, I don't talk to my dad anymore because he still hangs around one of the abusers. And he, I've told him it hurts and he doesn't care. So so for, I don't talk to that. I mean, I hope he's well, but I don't talk to him anymore.
I haven't for, I guess, a couple of years now. But, but anyway, I got that message and I just knew, I just knew, Anna, like, I knew, like, I just knew because that uncle had remarried, had new kids, I knew, I just knew in that message, without a shadow of a doubt, that that's crap, like, this has happened again to somebody, like, to that new, that new niece.
And sure enough, or my cousin, I guess with my cousin but his daughter and and it happened and he said, I didn't do things right the first time and I'm going to do things right this time. And so he wanted to know if I would be a part of the court case. And so I did. I was a part of it. I had to go back in front of.
A camera again, and an investigator, really sweet lady, made it as comfortable as, as like, as she could, you know, How does that, you want coffee? And we sat on the couch, and they just had the little camera, like, you know, above on the ceiling, which kind of made me nervous, but like, she tried to make it as comfortable as possible.
But, and I had to do all that, but I was like, you know what, finally, that uncle will pay for all the rape and molestation that he caused me and for so many other people, and then he was supposed to be getting arrested, and he was found dead. Like three or four days before he was going to get arrested. Now, the investigator had said, I'm coming for you.
Like, he told my uncle that. So like, and he had high blood pressure, all he had to do was take one more pill. Like, so I already knew, like, he, he, he killed himself. Like, he took so, too much medicine of some kind, because he was found dead, like, literally a few days before he was supposed to get arrested. So that's no coincidence.
That's, yeah, so I know that something he did something to himself. And so that was really hard because I'm like, Oh, my God, like, finally, I was going to have like justice for what happened. And then that happened. And yeah, crazy. But then that was before the psychedelic, you know, now I'm, I'm in a place where it's like, well.
You know, I wish, I still wish that he would have gotten justice for what he did. I wanted to see, I wanted to be at the court case and stand in front of everybody and say what he did from the stand and then watch him get hauled off. Like I wanted to see that. But you know, I'm sure he was going through hell when he was thinking about when he ended his life, you know, so, but yeah, and then the other uncle, yeah, my dad, that.
He still hangs around him and and now he even knows like what he did to me and still hangs around him. And I'm like, I don't get that. Like, he's, and oh, and hell, he's a pastor. Believe that? Oh, gosh. And my mom's like, it's a miracle. And I was like, are you kidding me? Are you fucking kidding me? Like, no, it's not a miracle.
I didn't tell her that, but I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, that's not a miracle. Like, that's not a good thing. Like, he should be in jail for what he did to me. So I've had a lot of forgiveness I've had to do with my mom, too, just because. When I was like 12 years old, 13 years old, maybe she invited that rapist in our home and they, they stayed over the weekend.
Both of the uncles were there and I remember after they left, like, I couldn't sleep in my own bed for at least a year. Like I could not, I didn't even feel safe in my own home. Like I, I had to sleep, I slept in the back when water beds were popular. Heh. I slept in the waterbed with my mom, and then she got tired of it, and so I slept on her floor, because I did not feel safe in my own home.
I didn't feel safe in my own room. So there's been a lot of hurts that I've had to really overcome as well, just because, you know, through all of that, or, or still to this day, I can't talk to her about the abuse. I also did ayahuasca last year, which is another psychedelic, which is really healing.
Did that last year. And and that was kind of like I was struggling with. Why does my dad think that's okay to hang around those people who hurt me? And why can't my mom, like, let me talk to her about things, you know? And it kind of just, she just, ayahuasca is kind of known as like the mama ayahuasca.
And so she kind of just told me like, there is nothing wrong with you. So what I was doing was I was taking on that blame of like, there's something wrong with me and that's why my dad still hangs around that uncle. And there's something wrong with me and that's why my mom can't let me talk to her about my abuse.
So I was taking all that on, which, oh my God, that's not healthy. And I, and I guess I had self hate, which I didn't know that was still deep in there, but there, that was there, and I was sore for about two weeks trying to puke that self hate up, because it was, I think because it, and the counselor was like, it's probably because it was, had been there for so long, because it was so deep in there.
I didn't even know it was there. I thought, oh, Ibogaine and DMT probably got all of that. No, ayahuasca got even more. That I didn't even realize was there and so yeah, I'm just on a journey now to like more healing for myself and encourage other people like, hey, for going through all this, like there is hope these psychedelics really do help you and can heal you in ways that nothing else has.
Anna: Right. Oh, absolutely. What a beautiful story of healing from such tragedy to such amazing healing through the psychedelic medicines and sounds like your journey is still continuing. And I can only imagine what else it can bring you with kind of healing and peace and self love. So I'm really looking forward for that for you.
And thank you. Jamie, if somebody's listening right now and they're wondering, okay, I want to ask questions about this. How does it all work? You didn't want to talk to you. How can they reach you?
Jamie: Yeah, so I have a website. It's called aftertraumaart.com. Now I have a TikTok, same thing, aftertraumaart.
Also have an Instagram after trauma art. And so that's probably the best way to get ahold of me is I know tick talks, I don't know, I guess may not be here much longer. So Instagram is probably the best bet at this point is Instagram. Because I have a lot, because what happened was I got home from my journey, my first healing experience doing the psychedelics and.
I started painting, and so a lot of it is like, like, word art, and so I have ones that say like, you're just as guilty because I feel like, you know, my mom put a lot of blame on my dad which I don't even like calling him that, because I don't feel like he deserves that title, but sperm donor is kind of more realistic, but I feel like, She was just as guilty because she didn't do anything either, you know, like she put a lot of that on him, but she's just as guilty.
So I have ones that say that. I have ones that say like smile to hide the pain because I did that for a long time. Oh, I forgot to tell you one other thing. I'm sorry. But on Ibogaine, this other thing was amazing that I saw. I saw me as a little girl and I was screaming and crying and my face was really red and I'm crying and because I grew up super religious, anger was a sin.
So you can't be anger. So I was, I didn't feel like I was even allowed to be angry about what I went through. And so on Ibogaine, I saw myself and here's the crazy part. You couldn't hear me, which I'm getting chills. But that's how I felt because I didn't feel like I got heard because I told and nothing happened.
Yeah. So on Ibogaine, it's kind of showing me like, no, you were, you were angry, because it showed me like, she looked creepy, like she was pissed, she's like her fist in the air, and just. You just bawling her eyes out and screaming with their fists in the air, like trying to yell, like, ah, like I'm yelling, but you couldn't hear me.
And so I have one that says, you know, like the inner child, you know, I'm trying to remember what that one says, but it's like the inner child is heard or something. Like I have just different ones, just phrases that come to me. That like I wasn't demon possessed. I was, I was traumatized, so I have just different ones that come to me that I, I did one the other day that it literally just says, fuck people, it's kind of funny, and it's, it's just because of like, not like in general, like, hey, fuck you, like, no, it's more of like, it's kind of more of the way I explain it is like, screw you if you think that you have the right to tell me how to live my life, like, screw you, you know, because, You think you have the right to tell me how to live, you know, like that's kind of what that means not like in a bad way But it's kind of more of a in a healing way Like fuck you if you think you're gonna be able to tell me what how to live my life You know, I did it churches way for 37 years.
So and it didn't work. So Now I'm going to live my life the way I feel like I need to live my life and I still believe in God, like I said, but I don't go to church. I haven't since basically, basically since coming back from my first journey. So since 37, I'm now I'm about to be 41 next month. So but yeah, I just, I, so I came back and I started doing a lot of paintings and I still do very healing.
So, I would, if somebody's listening, I would say you got to find also like an outlet, like do psychedelics. Don't be scared. Maybe try. You know, I haven't tried ketamine, which I think, you know, I would love to try that. That's when I haven't tried yet. But the ayahuasca I've done was super healing. The ibogaine and the DMT were super healing.
I would just say you if like just do it like even if you're scared because I was to do it Anyway, because it it can change your life for the better and can change your family tree for the better Don't think about, if you have a family, like, think about them too, like, be a, because I remember I started this healing journey when I had my daughter, she's 13 now, and I started the journey when she was like one, I was like, you know what, I want to be a better mom for my kids, and for her especially, I want her to look at me and say, man, I want to be a confident mom like my mom, you know, like, I want to be a confident woman like my mom is, and so that's kind of when I started the healing journey, like, it kind of just really struck up, like, especially when she got to three, and that was when my rape happened.
It was like, oh, it was triggering. And so I was like, I've got to get healing and I've got to be better. So I would just say, if you're listening, whether you have a family or not, like, do it, it will help you, it will heal you in so many ways, like, probably ways you don't even think it will, because I, like I said, I just realized a year ago, my headaches have been gone for, you know, three years.
Anna: Yeah. Wow. Wow. What a powerful message that, you know, just do it. If you think that you need some healing, yes, it's scary, but, you know, make sure you kind of have the proper support with you. Absolutely. And do it. Go on that journey.
Jamie: Definitely.
Anna: Yeah. Wow. Jamie, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you.
This interview was so incredibly interesting and, like I said, so powerful. And I hope very helpful to my listeners who suffer and live with trauma, like you said, with that trauma filter. Thank you so much for being here.
Jamie: Thanks for having me.
Anna: All right, and for all of you listening, I hope you leave feeling a little more empowered today. And remember, healing takes time, and you're exactly where you need to be. Take care of yourselves, and until we meet again, be kind to your heart. e kind to your heart.
